Why n8n + Lovable Is Replacing Salesforce, HubSpot, and Slack with Olof Hedin

What if AI could let anyone  (not just engineers) build real software? In this impromptu podcast recorded live outside Google Next, Olof Hedin of Lovable sits down with the n8n team to explore how vibe coding is democratizing software creation and reshaping entire industries.

Olof shares the origin story of Lovable, from a viral GitHub prototype to one of the fastest-growing companies of all time. The conversation dives into how non-technical users (from nurses at HCA Healthcare to a Brazilian entrepreneur who built a $500K safety app) are building production-ready software with simple prompts. 

Olof breaks down the n8n and Lovable MCP partnership, the enterprise adoption playbook including customers like NVIDIA with the emerging tech stack of AI agents, workflow automation, and no-code front ends that's threatening legacy software giants like SAP and Salesforce. 

They also discuss what the future holds for solo founders, the one-person billion-dollar company, and the security risks of giving AI agents too much power.

🎙 Chapters:
00:00 - Highlights & Teaser
00:40 - Live From Google Next
02:54 - The Origin Story of Lovable
04:17 - Internal Tools & Vibe Coding
06:26 - The n8n x Lovable Partnership
09:22 - Breaking Down Data Silos
14:54 - Nurses Vibe Coding at HCA
16:27 - The $500K Safety App From Brazil
23:25 - What Makes Lovable Different
26:24 - Enterprise Adoption Barriers
31:28 - The One-Person Billion-Dollar Company
34:54 - Advice for Aspiring Builders
40:15 - Hopes, Fears & AI Security
42:00 - Closing Thoughts

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Before you had 1% of the population that had to sit and hack. Now you can unleash the other 99% of the population that can also build software. So the limitation is no longer engineer. The limitation is the ideas that people have. She did an app that actually made $500,000 the first three months. And what it does, a woman before she goes to date, she can check the guy if he has a criminal record so she can go safely on the date. 190 hospitals, 300,000 employees. The nurses can vibe code. They had 20 hours. And they then came up with a business idea. They start monetizing, and they actually did an exit within these 20 hours. We're kind of like babies with bazookas.

SPEAKER_01 0:39

Yeah, that's a good description. We're alive. We'll see how this podcast goes. No, no blames. Yeah, impromptu. We're the Four Seasons Hotel outside of the Google Next conference. And uh we're here with Olaf. Yep. And not the typical podcast. And so we're having a conversation because you are a part of an incredible journey, partnered with N8N uh with your with your company. Correct. Um and you've had a bit of a wild ride. You're telling me about a bit of what you've done and a bit of what your son's done. Yeah. And I just, as we're having a conversation, I was like, we probably won't record anything. Not because we're yeah, things well, not remembering. It was so fascinating. I'm like, you know what? We've got to at least try. So I'm gonna I'm gonna see, we're gonna see what happens with the conversation. Uh you told me a little bit of the journey. Uh, could you please let me know what is the name of the company? Well, it it is lovable.

SPEAKER_00 1:28

Uh, you know, see here are my my PC, uh, if you're recording up there. Uh and and that could be a dating site, but this happened to be a name out of what you need to have for an IT application to be used, and it needs to be lovable. Uh so when the engineers called it something, they call it the the least viable product or or an MVP or uh and so on. But we should have have have the least lovable product. That's what you need actually to get really successful with usage. Uh, and that's that's where the name comes from. Amazing.

SPEAKER_01 2:00

And you tell me a bit about the journey of when this thing took off, it was it was kind of an experiment. There's multiple experiments, and then there was a there was a moment in time that happened that you realized that there was some sort of traction with this. Can you talk to me, walk me up to that moment?

SPEAKER_00 2:14

Yeah, yeah, no, it was it was it was uh Anton that came, let's say, with a with a idea or or or saw that thing coming with AI and the LLMs, and that should be able to write code. It it's called large language models, so it should be good with law, you know, uh customer support, and of course, programming, because that's just a language, and you have a bunch of rules and you have error reports and and you know how it should be structured. So, of course, that's an ideal use case. So getting that to to work uh was was the big uh thing that lovable did basically.

SPEAKER_01 2:46

Amazing. And with that, yeah, there is something that you guys did that what kind of was the kickoff moment that you're like, okay, this was okay, there's something here. What what happened?

SPEAKER_00 2:54

Uh Anton put up a prototype of of Lovable, uh a very uh minimum or minimum lovable product at GitHub. And uh and that uh went uh went viral basically. And um and and at that moment he realized this can be a foundation for uh for a company and for an a new uh way of doing uh doing things in programming, because before you had 1% of the population that had to sit and hack. And and now if you can unleash the other 99% of the population that can also build software. So the limitation is no longer engineer. Uh the limitation is the ideas that people have. So that that's a fantastic shift of of the whole way that we've been operating since programming was invented, basically.

SPEAKER_01 3:45

Well, it's in it's crazy because if you think about it, it's like the the what is like power, and and it's like being able to speak something into existence is like, you know, uh the ultimate form of power. And with the power with lovable, you have this original moment of a prompt to a video game, which was able to say, Oh my god, I can do this. Yeah, it's a very empowering, intoxicating feeling, and it's something that is I could see how it could be a lovable and also addictive in a very powerful way that gives you the ability that you no longer have to go through 17 developers and a project manager to make this happen. Yeah. You got a crazy idea, then you can create it.

SPEAKER_00 4:17

And that that's what we see how it's spreading as well with internal tools. So if you just put this in the hands of the people that are the SMEs that know the business, then they create exactly what they need. If they buy a standard application, they get you know 100 things that they don't need, but other customers need. But now that when they can do that, and of course they are pretty uh uh pretty loyal to what they have built themselves and the user experience for them, uh they're pretty addicted to that and want to improve it. And then they gradually can improve it with a simple prompt and just make it better and better. So it's a whole new way of thinking what is standard application, what is custom made, uh, and what is now maybe self-made uh applications for for businesses to run it.

SPEAKER_01 5:01

And what's interesting about that too is I'm I'm also curious. I don't know if you've done this or not, or if you guys do this, do you use lovable to make lovable? Sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:08

We have lovable and lovable. So we make all the you know internal tools we try try to use lovable uh to maximum. And we see some clients that are are super good at doing that. Expert Reality here in the US that have 85,000 real estate agents, for example. They have done their CMS, they they are replacing CRMs, they have their whole uh internal uh, let's say, cooperation tool. So they actually shut down both Slack and Meta Workplace uh as their intranet, uh, and they call it the hub. And it was their CEO that that vibe coded that and gave it to the IT department, and now they're shutting down the sauce uh uh subscriptions that they have, one million dollars each for those two products. And we have the whole go-to-market thing, we have our recruitment team is building their own things with heat maps where we have possible candidates. It's all lovable apps.

SPEAKER_01 5:58

Amazing. And what's cool about that is that usually you had to have the CEO enroll the engineer or convince the CTO that this is a good idea, and then you have to do a tug of war of power until one of them you know strong arms the other one or bribes them to get them to make it. So now it's like, I have an idea, let me make it, let me execute it, now let me pass this off, which is incredible. I'm curious about because I know that NAN, we've had a partnership with you at NOS through our MCP connection. Can you talk a little bit about the partnership between NAN and Lovable?

SPEAKER_00 6:26

So NAM was one of the first uh you know integrations that uh Lovable did. And then you know the power of the workflows that NAN done uh and the and the front end that Lovable can do uh is is a fantastic match. You can basically build the uh business applications, ERP systems, mini versions, or some of those uh some processes that complement the current ERP or CRM uh that companies have as well. So so um and now we've we've kind of doubled down on the MCPs. So actually, in the future, very uh not so far future, all the lovable apps uh that you will build will also be MCP enabled so they can talk to the agents. We are not we're going away, you know, as the foundation of of just building apps with a GUI uh that's also being MCP enabled, so you can have agent-to-agent talk. So we actually demoed that together with a company yesterday with site improved. They have uh uh MCP server that checks if the site is built according to all the accessibility things, and then that can talk to the lovable agent and then fix it uh if it has not followed all the rules in the EU and and and uh Americas. Oh wow.

SPEAKER_01 7:35

Oh yeah, yeah, GDRP compliant, all that. Yeah, yeah. Of course. And what it's so funny too, but it's interesting about that when also you're talking about how the CEO uh had an idea and started to build the things. The original genesis of In8N, uh, the founder of Yawn used to work in terms of a video production company. And he always had to build these automations out for these movie producers and all these film studios. Yeah, I don't know. And he's like, I don't want to be the bottleneck. What if I got myself all the way and let them build it themselves? And then they get the heart of the problem closer to this, and then you create this integration. And it's really interesting how as you start with this genesis of having the person's got the problem being able to solve it, you're giving them more tools and more capabilities. So originally, not only is it a video game generation and website creation, um, what are some of the additional things? GDRP compliance, what are the other superpowers that you're giving people with these MCPs?

SPEAKER_00 8:22

If you go down the list, uh you know, if it's a shift, I think, with uh how uh you can build uh support for your your processes, because the the traditional way has been to buy an application that is very good at at CRM or or uh CS or or ERP and supply chain and so on. But the data has kind of been siloed in those things. And each supplier, you know, whether that's Salesforce or HubSpot or Oracle or SAP, they try to expand from that data and keep that inside their little pocket. And if you want to use that data that is in a Microsoft business center, then you have to pay for doing that as well, then. And and with MCPs, you you might be able to see a new landscape where the company basically owns all their own data and you put agents on top of it, and those agents talk to each other uh and and it is not siloed, then you don't have to export into a data warehouse from each of these applications to make use of it. You can have both have the BIA applications, uh just just using uh native AI to ask this pool of data basically, and then you can put NITN on top to do the workflows and and and lovable to do the GUIs or and or agents uh to to to process and manipulate that that data. So it's a new kind of landscape that the forefront movers are are seeing in this. And then we see the the big sauce companies trying to react to this as well, and and uh a bit worried uh about their revenue.

SPEAKER_01 9:52

It's uh as it should be. The incumbents are always worried about the revenue. Uh it's only it's yeah, it feels like what we had is we had a multi-layered cake, yeah, right, which was the data layer, the logic layer, the presentation layer all on those pieces. But now, on top of that, we snuck in a new layer, which is this AI agent layer and this orchestration layer that controls the AI agents. Uh-huh. Are there any other layers to the cake that you're seeing? Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 10:16

Yeah, we you know, this this is constantly evolving, basically. Uh so I've I'm but uh I think that's the main layers that you are laying out there. Um the presentation layer is of course there as well, because you know, for having humans in the loop, they have to look at something uh sometimes to improve it as well. Yeah, you don't want to let them loose. And we see, you know, some security example now when when people are letting the aliens access everything on their computers. So so so uh so the security layer, security and presentation on top of that. I feel like all of us right now are we're kind of like babies with bazookas.

SPEAKER_01 10:48

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like the native. That's a good description. Yeah. What's interesting, we're kind of going this full circle route too. When you look at this, uh originally you just prompted it, this GPT prompted engineer to build something. Yeah. And then we went there. Now we have not only we had the ability to prompt, we have this GUI, now we have these MCPs that are happening on the back end. Yeah, right. Are you doing anything around data visibility, data layers? I know like that's something that NitN does really well. Yeah. But the things that you're doing around to be able to basically open up that uh the back end of the systems, make that more transparent.

SPEAKER_00 11:20

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So so and that's what I mentioned with with the development of having each uh lovable app also being MCP uh enabled, basically, so you can work with that data. And what we also see as a transition, first it was an engineer mainly for for prototyping and so on, then it became you know more apps, and then it became full suites basically to operate your business on as well. And and what we are branding it on the tour that we're doing around the world right now is it's for for founders, actually. It's a co-founder. So Lovable uh, you know, is now a co-founder. So if you're starting an aspiring uh founder and you have an idea, you just sign up and then have this. I've said of hiring uh 20 engineers, you you you talk to your co-founder for sure.

SPEAKER_01 12:05

Uh yeah, and I've seen a lot of people do those things where they have those like you know, masterminds where you have my AI, Mark Surelius, and so forth, and you're able to put those things together. And I've seen this series online where people say, Hey, I'm gonna start my business with my AI co-founder. It's telling me what I should build and where I should go. I'm just gonna try to listen to it the best because a lot of times right now, we're in this weird area where we're kind of like this um the assistant to the AI. Where do we go, okay? What do you need AI? Grab it, put it in the screen. What do you need? Okay, grab that, you put that into here. Yeah, right. Where do you think in this, especially in this area where a lot of these incumbents, especially the enterprise sectors, they have these areas that are gated. Yeah. Where you with the the these painful walled guardians where they're hiding things behind what do you think is what do you think how is this new landscape of this evolution affecting this this entrenched uh landscape?

SPEAKER_00 12:57

Yeah, so I've been giving that quite a lot of faults. And I I think it will uh become two main or three main areas of this. You have we're the big players that are delivering these standard applications. If they can apply uh agency workflows on top of their things and include that in the package, some customers will will stay within that bubble. And then you have another team that that are trying to basically scale back the the standard applications to more or less be uh a repository of data and use the structure that they have there. And then they build for their different uh use cases bubbles around that, uh, you know, fetching and leaving data. And then you have the third uh part of it, they will will skip the standard applications and they will just use a Databricks or Snowflake, keep the data there, and use uh agents and applications like ANFA and Lovable on top of that, basically. So so that's the three categories that I see.

SPEAKER_01 13:56

It's interesting with this as you talk about it, is because part of things which is with a challenge and is also like part of our superpowers and like mankind's superpowers, yeah, is our ability to collaborate through space and time using technology. Yeah, right. That's really what allowed us to dominate, right? We're fleshy humans that can get eaten by anything from from ants to sharks, right? The thing about this, which I'm trying to figure out here, and you talk about these three different buckets or these three different groupings, is especially in the enterprise, our power is our ability to unify and work together. But the decentralization of the ability to generate and create kind of breaks instead of an army unit being able to march off together, you have these commandos going off kind of wild, wild westing it to make this. So, how do you rectify between the between the commandos going off wild westing these solos and you know 50 different team members making 50 different applications and the unification?

SPEAKER_00 14:48

Yeah, yeah. So that whole governance structure depending on on what your uh organization. So one one example is is HGA Healthcare here in the US as well. They got about 190 hospitals, 300,000 employees. And they did a uh a very serious uh lovable project where they basically had a 15 people project and they uh set up the governance structure. So the the nurses can vibe code, but they do that towards uh a test database basically. It has the same patient record structure and the connection to the patient record system. They also connect it into Palantir, actually. Uh and uh and then they can vibe code against that. And then that goes into GitHub. And then the IT department basically does the same thing that they always done, but before it was programmers that delivered into GitHub. Now it's a nurse that vibe coded with lovable and can deliver there as a programmer because it's already code there. And then they do their DevOps and with the testing, and and then they they they publish it on their selected cloud.

SPEAKER_01 15:50

Then so you almost have you have the subject matter experts as basically people that are at the very fringe of the problem. Yeah, yeah. They solve the problems, they deliver it to the source page of the developers. Yeah, developers can take it, rate it, reveal it. Yeah, yeah. Not ideally.

SPEAKER_00 16:05

They do the last 10, 15 percent and and and and then put it into production. You put it into production. So that that's the super safe way. So that's one way of doing it. The other one is is the more instant way. So we have have one one lady down in uh in Brazil, for example. So she saw a problem with the with the most domestic violence, uh, and and violent guys basically being uh being a problem for for women. So she did an app that actually made $500,000 the first three months. And what it does is that a woman, before she goes to a date, she can check the guy if he has a criminal criminal record so she can go safely on the date. So it costs five bucks per check, uh, or or twenty bucks for a full year if you're a big dater. Uh and and that's that's the power with, and then she does it on our infrastructure uh and our prescribed uh you know cloud and AI functionality that we have in the back end. So that's battery included, or you can do it the enterprise way and use your bring your own cloud basically and do what you always have been doing.

SPEAKER_01 17:04

Wow. Great use case. I mean, something I want to think of as a guy. Yeah, right. I'm not really worried. You know, that there's a reason why people watch. You go dating in Brazil a lot. I think my wife might not approve of that. Uh but I mean the there's a reason why they watch murder mystery shows. Yeah, they're like, are they gonna love me? Are they gonna murder me? What's gonna happen in a situation? Yeah, and so I it's called Plink, by the way. Plink? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:26

P P L L N with the Q at that.

SPEAKER_01 17:28

An incredible use case.com dot br. I mean, the Icause people always say, you know, is it the jockey or is it the horse? Is it the idea or is it the execution? Yeah. But now when you get down to the execute, you get the idea, now you go into the execution, one of the biggest challenges we now have is now that you can now you can ideate almost anything, you can create anything. The biggest challenge is now going to market. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And so what do you see in terms of going to market? Uh, if a small company wants to get into enterprise or a small company wants to get the word out there, what is the what are the strategies that people have used and try to bring these types of applications to market?

SPEAKER_00 18:00

Well, what we from Lovable can help with with that, that is of course exposing the apps and having a little bit of an app store and and and so on, uh, and then just being good at uh at doing SOE for them as well with with the apps that we are building. But then they have to do the their normal, you know, influencers or marketing, whatever tools that they use. So that's not really our our game, right? But uh uh but that we leave to the entrepreneurs.

SPEAKER_01 18:25

I occasionally you get these moments like uh like there's the open claw moment that came out that are clawed, yeah. Whatever the name the 37 names it had took off. Your son had the thing where it took off, right? There's these moments where it's clearly it's like, okay, let's drop everything that's going into it. And but sometimes it's hard to get the word out there. But that's the thing that's interesting, because like right now, people can spin up so many ideas so quickly, yeah. And it's just trying to get it out there. So if you're close to the problem, like that woman with pink, yeah, is the name of it. Yeah, yeah. Then it's like, I'm gonna tell all my girlfriends, yeah, you know. Although I will say that most guys I've talked to originally when I was a software developer back in the day, like, hey, could we build a Tinder app that it just all comes to me?

SPEAKER_02 19:01

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 19:04

Oh, that's another side of that. Um video generation to the same guy, different different advocates.

SPEAKER_00 19:10

But um, but but just to all that Brazilian note. So Brazil is the second country of usage uh in in uh in the lovable world. It's uh US is the first with the with the just short of 30%. And then on the servers, we have about 12.5% in Brazil, and there is no employee from lovable in Brazil. So it's all been word of mouth uh momentum and and and uh you know events happening, hackathons and so on. Sure. And it's just been spreading like a wildfire down there.

SPEAKER_01 19:39

Well, I mean, you have I mean the trajectory of growth in terms of revenue. Uh I know uh uh it's one of the fastest growing companies of all time. It was it was pretty much a B2C move. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:50

98% of all the revenue comes from uh uh from credit card 97, 98 in the in that that area. But a lot of big companies have been putting in the credit card as well because you get pockets inside of those. So it's not all B2C. There's a lot of big enterprises and small enterprises that that that don't go through the enterprise motion of lovable bases.

SPEAKER_01 20:11

Well, it's it's the bubble up framework. Yeah, and so and so what you do is you you, I mean, you know this with enterprise or anything, an internal evangelist is the thing you need in order to get anywhere. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So if you whether it's somebody builds with NATN, one of the reasons why you know In Itin is an fair code, not open source, fair code. Yeah. Uh and you can use it, is that you create internal evangelists who get it, like it, love it, bring it inward, say, look what I've been able to build. Yeah. Sounds like Lowable is a very similar model. Very similar. Yeah. I built an incredible, isn't this amazing? They're like, wow, could we just we swap out the brand, the name? And by the way, did you do that in company time? Thank you so much. We'll go ahead and put it in my pocket. Yeah. You know? But it's a thing. Yeah. And that's incredible to be able to do it because that's the way you want. You never want the top-down.

SPEAKER_00 20:49

Yeah, it's which is a lot tougher to sell. You know, I've I've been working at SAP, I've been working with a Microsoft uh business application stack and so on. And they always come to in and it's RFQ and and and the long process of selling, basically. Here, you know, we can go into any company and they have a shadow IT of a huge number of uh uh of lovable users already. So usually when I go into a company, I just send out an uh email uh to those ones that I see are users. So, you know, Swedish public sector, all the hospitals, for example, it's it's a lot of steps to go in as public purchasing, but then I just sent an email to everybody who who were using it there, and they come back with all of these great things that they're using inside the hospital already.

SPEAKER_01 21:32

Well, to that point, I mean, what do you think is one of the biggest areas, and it could be enterprise or not, like that is going to be disrupted by this new technology? Like what do you think is the biggest one that you think is ripe for disruption?

SPEAKER_00 21:44

Well, I I think it's uh the the lowest hanging fruit probably for these type of things, it's for like say the internal support functions. If you talk internal tools, so so CFOs, HR people and and and these guys, they can get exactly what they want. uh with this either uh with with when they prompt the whole back end or if they connect to their their current back end whether that is workday or whatever it is and and then you have the whole go-to-market side as well uh where we see great traction we had the build in Boston when we inaugurated our office in Boston last week we had the governor come and cut the ribbon uh so that was a fun event and then we invited a bunch of of go to marketers and they came to our office on on Thursday there uh so it was 250 people coming and that was all go to market and AI in go to market and we had a number of of of of clients that that show what they had done it's just amazing what people do in the go to market and getting all the data at the fingertips of an AE before they go out and meet and talk to customers and using AI to drive that with very few people and with very high output.

SPEAKER_01 22:49

Amazing because it's right now we were especially with salespeople it the show not tell yeah right is is a powerful tool. So a sales guy can come in you don't need a sales solution engineer uh to be on the team they can just kind of pop it up as need be. I am curious though and this is one thing that we talked about you mentioned earlier I don't know if it was pre-recording or not is that the technology was here to be able to create this yeah to be able to do prompt to creation of an application. Yeah. And the thing is with that is that Lovable isn't the only company that's been able to do that. No, I don't know. There's been a couple of other ones doing it that but you had a meteoric rise compared to a lot of them what is the differentiator if the technology is the same what or the opportunity for the technology same what caused Lovable's meteoric rise?

SPEAKER_00 23:33

So I I think there's a couple of components in that that's been in the mix. One is that that we've been extremely focused on the design and the usability of the product to make it super easy for the non-technical people to just put in a prompt and then you have it there with payments and and integrations to Shopify or whatever you want to build and also targeting let's say the the the solo builders and and the the entrepreneurs and that has been very usable in both enterprise and as a B sector as well. Many of the other tolls maybe come a little bit more from the IT side and the IT department with uh you know most of the companies we get into it's through the business side it's not that IT thinks that they need a new tool because they've had you know IT is probably one of the best examples of using AI in in most companies because they had had uh you know cursor and and uh github copilot and all this for years now uh at least github co-pilot but if cursor is a bit newer uh and that they they are very happy with that and that works great and now cloud code on top of that so there's a myriad of tools for those guys and they don't need maybe lovable to the same it's not the quantum leap that it is for for sales guy that can that are in Peru and they're gonna start their their new landing page and that person can do that in 24 hours that we've seen with some companies and happening in any language basically.

SPEAKER_01 25:00

Incredible it's so funny because you talk about like UI and aesthetics being a one of the competitive advantages it almost reminds me of like Microsoft versus Apple back in the day Steve Jobs with the ability of calligraphy yeah in the the the the technology is the same but the perception is different because of the packaging. Yeah. And so if you look at that I do know that because when I've tested out multiple different obviously use multiple different these platforms is that there is a there it is a bit more elegant but I think it's not necessarily like like I'd say elegant as in like like Mercedes Benz. I kind of think it was like like a young if Steve Jobs was young and hip. Yeah you know like a born in the like the 2010s well they got the new CEO. So Apple might be in hip pretend yeah Apple's been having some problems. Apple's been having some problems like we can't innovate here we know to make the money but yeah they're making a ton of money so that's part has yeah yeah bricks of cash so try to throw out the problem we'll see we'll see how they go with it and uh and one that bit of money went to the getting the new CEO. So um so you come towards this because I want to I do want to be respectful of your time and I don't have a clock around me so I don't actually know what time it is right now.

unknown 26:04

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 26:06

Cool we've got a couple more minutes on this one I did the thing about being in Vegas you no clocks anywhere. Like all we want to see is wallets and smiles. That's all we want to see here. Okay but on on the thing right now you you talked about that being the the evolution now especially going in the space right now like what do you think is the the the the major roadblocks and barriers in order to get penetration not only from because B2C right now is is great. B2B is obviously a little bit more complex complicated. What do you think is the biggest barrier to try to have these cutting edge technologies like lovable penetrate into the enterprise market space?

SPEAKER_00 26:41

So we we have one app that our customer success team has built and there we monitor you know the main uh drivers for adoption so one is when you get into an enterprise it's to have an easy login and handling that all people can use it. So SSO is of obviously the number one. The second one is is is to connect it to uh internal uh systems and applications and allowing also to create certain types of applications with the batteries included back end that that lovable creates uh and then connecting to mcp servers and getting the agents to work in like an orchestration there. I think so so so but for large enterprise it's the connection to their data that is is the big thing. We have you know Nvidia for example now there they are are using it for production optimization for example uh and they're rolling it out to a very high number of people in their organization and connection to MCP servers and also the connecting to the design system. So when you prompt uh inside Nvidia it looks yellow and black basically exactly pixel perfect so that's another big thing that that we worked a lot on the last half year I would say to to to get in an easy way to just import the current design system.

SPEAKER_01 27:58

As you're saying that I I could just picture the CEO of NVIDIA coming down going what I built.

SPEAKER_00 28:03

I built this you know demo no don't memo.

SPEAKER_01 28:09

Exactly and and he actually said uh you know uh I love lovable so he's a rollout cursor to all his uh C N B C interviewing there like uh he had a whole presentation where he talked about that CES or something yeah yeah yeah yeah it was the CNBC I think it was an interview there so uh and then uh and Nvidia has actually uh invested in in lovable as well they also invested in NADN yeah yeah yeah yeah incredible with okay so it sounds like uh one of the biggest things is with enterprise is don't make me change my behavior yeah I want it as low friction as possible so single sign on easy onboarding yeah I want to be able to access to my data so whether let's say Snowflake or you know name another technology that you want to hook up into can this thing connect in to do that and so that's probably where the MCPs come in because then if you can make it easy to be able to access those data points then you say okay great you can vibe code an answer and or vibe code a problem solution put that in there ideally get a single sign on and then you know Bob's your uncle you're off to the races with the solution.

SPEAKER_00 29:12

Yep. And and you know I'd talk to the CEO of of uh Siteimprove here is a Danish company originally but now uh yeah uh the the CEO lives in the in the Bay Area uh and uh it took them about just a few hours to do the MCP integration with their tech stack that they have on mainly the enterprise and public sector area and then we could have an agent to agent call uh talk uh with with with lovable so that's the speed of integration as well that makes that possible it cost too much and it was too too difficult to maintain before but now if you can do it with a couple of hours then it it's the threshold has gone down so much so it's going to be more of that and there you have in like big universities here in the in the US there's like 20 people working with that and now that can be done overnight with an agent to agent so it's also threatening in a bunch of jobs here with with this thing enhancing enhancing jobs empowering people more value adders but they you know they they they they might be able to do different things but the the way they've done it before is not going to exist anymore.

SPEAKER_01 30:17

But that's the thing it's an evolution we are in a there's a a longevity guy named Brian Johnson. Uh huh yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah I know yeah yeah they're all trying to live forever uh but the the example he gave of AI he goes imagine you're swimming and then you're trying to be more efficient so you learn to swim faster yeah but then AI comes and it basically it's not just it's not just different types of water it's a state change so you're swimming yeah then all of a sudden the water's going to evaporate into gas yeah and I've gotten so that's hard to swim in yeah well you're skydiving it's probably the same emotional feeling at the same time yeah yeah it's beautiful uh but that thing is it it is evolving we don't know where this is going and obviously there's these it's both with great opportunity and also great fear yeah uh great fear for especially the people on the top that say I'm I'm I'm safe with my moat because basically all these moats are disappearing overnight. Yeah now in terms of you talked about this example the female who added it yeah yeah don't kill me app yeah yeah yeah uh love me or leave me kind of thing on the other side of this what about one of the biggest bets that I believe was floating around open AI was this. They were trying to say okay when is the first billion dollar company going to happen with founded by one that's gonna have one person in it. Have you seen uh whether it's in the enterprise sector or inside the commercial sector anybody using lovable or this type of technology stacked together to to that gets close to that one person, one billion dollar company?

SPEAKER_00 31:49

I've not seen the the the the one billion but I've seen a lot of examples that that made multi-millions in just uh weeks and months from launching. And we also had one example we did a hackathon uh with with Keandun one of our investors that is also a heavy heavy lovable user uh uh and in that hackathon they had 20 hours and they then came up with a business idea uh they start monetizing and they actually did an exit within these 20 hours so that's gonna be pretty hard for the VC firms to to pick out and find these ones so that just shows you a little bit of the speed that's happening here as well.

SPEAKER_01 32:25

Hackathon met met with speed dating of VCs yeah yeah that's a work mill there you got it who's got traction yeah yeah it it's hard to follow you know the latest five uh that's where that's where the VCs that's where the VC it's so funny actually I um uh one of the first things I did when uh I came in to with N8 In is I hosted the hackathon in San Francisco and I lined up a bunch of different judges. Yeah uh uh one of the judges she's a friend of mine uh really big in the AI in the AI world she does a lot of like AI for good AI for um positivity healthcare that kind of stuff um and she runs one of the largest AI uh for good organizations globally and I had a friend of mine from another podcast yeah had to come in present and then after she got done and she saw everything that was possible her number one thing is like I need to have AI to help me find these deals need to run these deal making things I'm like what could you what kind of AI system could you make that could like track GitHub the rate of acceleration of GitHub favorites or other things. Have you seen any things around?

SPEAKER_00 33:24

Yeah yeah no so as I have a great example of that. Before that you know we we IPO'd it and then the this American investor bought it out from from from Nasdaq and I worked with them for a couple of years. And now that that main guy behind that he he he he he left that private equity firm he started his own and he moved down to LA and he called me up and we had a chat what he's building now because he's going crazy with with lovable building basically the infrastructure for his new uh PE firm uh with lovable and he said I'm saving now in the startup about two junior persons 200k per year uh with with with lovable basically um so so so you you can build an infrastructure that that just does that analysis from public data of finding the possible targets for for for investment without hiring people from college directly so that's also going to be a little bit of a of a difference for how many of those junior both programming and for all the you know consulting firms and and uh PE firms and then the whole New York kind of uh can't they have a whole bunch of lovable engineers?

SPEAKER_01 34:37

Yeah yeah so you see you have lovable agents instead of of the of of hiring people so so yeah it's it's it's gonna change a lot of of industries yeah what advice do you have I mean obviously you've seen a number of people obviously use lovable yeah yeah what advice if somebody's like hey I want to use this technology to transform my life because obviously people are just seeking opportunities what do you what do you suggest to them that if they're gonna get into it no me maybe not a tech but like what is like okay yeah someone's like I'm young I'm a college kid I just spent fifty thousand dollars and I and on on for some reason it's it's it's unforgivable you can't erase that of debt in the United States here I'm I'm in debt yeah what can I do?

SPEAKER_00 35:20

Well I think I think there's two you know a number of different paths but one is of course if you have an idea that you think you can monetize and build on then you know get lovable as your co-founder and and get at it. If you have if you want to be a part of a larger organization you get the skills to use ai to uh in a fantastic way so just you know learn what what claude in all its versions can do now you know you claude design is coming you can review the your legal documents with it and you you can build code with it and then lovable uh as well you know to to to to build things and get those skill set internally because you will then be able to to both understand the whole workflows automate them and and and and do a good career based on those skills basically because that's what companies are looking the most for. I was up with one PE firm in New York uh yesterday and they had their recruitment things and how they were recruiting CROs. You know and they the CRO has to be able to AI enable the whole go-to-market uh play basically and that that's what they're looking for now when they're recruiting that kind of people if you are like a classical one you're gonna have a hard time getting those jobs.

SPEAKER_01 36:29

Well it's it's all it's like it seems like the combination again of when we talked about superpowers is our ability to connect through time and space use technology but I think it's this it's this refinement of critical thinking uh because you can the you can make anything but as we know there is uh amazing well thought out prompts and there's terrible ones yeah yeah yeah and so the thing is it sounds like the refinement of the ability to think deeply and prompt deeply and come up with solutions especially when you have domain knowledge like a CRO and then but thing is do you have that domain knowledge then you have this AI knowledge and then this AI knowledge which interesting is you talked about different buckets right so like in it in is amazing for back end data layers knowledge being able to you know have repeatable stand up things that can that can work at scale and observability right uh Claude's got they come out with 37 new features a week yeah yeah yeah and and uh sometimes ship their own private code that they cannot ship shouldn't ship yeah yeah yeah that's and and lovable is a is is amazing for a beautiful interface to be able to quickly design create and iterate all these pieces together if someone had the basically the Batman tool belt of skill sets right working together what are the different tools that you would suggest them looking at lovable, in it in Vlog Code, what other pieces of the pie are missing but I I think you know the the uh if you look at cloud code and the and cursor and GitHub Copilot all those you have to be quite technical to get those to be able to do an end-to-end solution.

SPEAKER_00 37:56

So that I think that's where where where kind of lovable shines where you can do that full end even though if you do not have the technical skills. If you do both have the ideas and you have the technical skills well then you have less need for for a lovable thing then uh so so yeah that I think that's the main one and but that's going to come into it's interesting because there there's there's obviously a huge gradient.

SPEAKER_01 38:16

Yeah right like I am very technical to some yeah not technical at all to others. Yeah yeah there's a big gradient for for everybody. But what's interesting is it seems like and correct me if I'm wrong the more that the ability that the data is at your fingertips for everything for history for I mean think about calculators for anytime that the in-depth knowledge is going to fade over time.

SPEAKER_00 38:44

Yeah you're not gonna have as many young people getting in and getting deep into that because the aliens will take care of a lot of that large extent.

SPEAKER_01 38:52

And so you're trying to so it seems like if one of the things of one reason why level is did so well in this B2C market space is that anybody with any technical background, the men of the level can get in and build whatever they want and without any domain knowledge. But it seems like if I was to pair things up I would want to I would either want to have someone that is deeply I want to interview people who've got core issues or have a painful problem myself. Yeah and if I have any personal domain knowledge myself I want to take a look at that but I don't need that to get started. I'm just trying to find who's got the biggest pain and and and what can I build to serve that person as a problem.

SPEAKER_00 39:28

The way we do it in internally in in uh in the in lovable we actually uh have a vibe coder that supports the GTM team uh so I w I did like a contract handling thing uh that I vibe coded myself and I did it 80-90% and then then I I I call us R can you finish this for me do the uh Google uh authentication and some workflow stuff and so on and then he fixes that so that I think that combination as well with SMEs and somebody who is a little bit more technical that can do the last mile is important for larger organizations.

SPEAKER_01 39:59

So it could be a it almost could be a sales solution engineer but sales solution vibe code in engineer. That's right that's a new skill that they need just enough to be dangerous especially if you're just building prototypes.

SPEAKER_00 40:10

Yeah yeah so okay incredible so in this era uh we're coming to what makes you both hopeful and fearful for the future I'm I'm generally a hopeful person but but of course the I'm I'm I'm most fearful for security actually if you let the the the agents uh access too much and they be are are very capable which they already are and will only become more powerful the damage they they can do uh if you let them lose in the the wrong area as well so that that I'm a little bit fearful for that area. So the governance and the let's say the design of the vibe coding systems and the connections to the MCPs needs to be done in a responsible way. Nice.

SPEAKER_01 40:54

And what is one other inspiring story that when you think about lovable, you think about some sort of use case it just warms your heart and it's a mess.

SPEAKER_00 41:03

You just you would love to tell the world about yeah we've if we we we had one hackathon uh with with a more management consulting firm uh and then one one lady stood up and this was early it was uh before summer last year uh and she'd done a private uh project and she said I have a problem because I always fall asleep when I read my bedtime stories for my kids and that kind of affects my my relationship with my husband because I'm super perky after I've slept after the the bedtime stories and he wants to go to bed. So her solution for that was to build a lovable app connected to her her Apple Watch. So when her pulse went down uh the Apple it woke her up so she would she would have more more quality time with her husband maybe so so that's a personal lovable project that is very lovable I would say yeah yeah that it probably saved a lot of love there in this iteration amazing is there any final words anything else you'd like to let people know about before we conclude the pod yeah I just say uh let your creativity flow and and get a lovable account and and and do what's what's on your mind and use it as a builder use it as a planner as a co founder whether you're an entrepreneur in large organization or where you're an aspiring uh entrepreneur and start up and want to build your billion dollar companies.

SPEAKER_01 42:20

Amazing Oh thank you it's been an honor and pleasure my friend much love and I'll I'll see you on the other side.

SPEAKER_00 42:25

Thank you. Thank you.